Map Improvements

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Re: Map Improvements

Post by iago6666 on Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:18 pm

What do you think if the name depends on the highest rank owner,can be done?
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Re: Map Improvements

Post by Radetzky on Sun Aug 18, 2013 3:08 pm

iago6666 wrote:What do you think if the name depends on the highest rank owner,can be done?
Yes that is how it is actually ingame Smile 
While it will probably make all czech settlements have german names, as an example, it is somewhat correctly representing the foreign "yoke".

Right now in native and in some modded it is, if you pardon me, "half-assed", by for example having "Basileios of Byzantine empire" and Kaiser of HRE. I for one like Englaland and Anglittére quite a lot. Native is also arbitrary that some can have Doux or Knyaz title, while the rest has to do with duke. Since I always felt this mod of greatest is always aiming a lot on immersion, it would suit quite well.
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Re: Map Improvements

Post by iago6666 on Sun Aug 18, 2013 3:46 pm

sorry i misunderstand it

let's review the options:

- place names in various languages and let the game handle it.
*more coherent and "somewhat correctly representing the foreign "yoke""

- implement local toponyms at the level of counts and dukes.
*more flavour and i think somewhat correctly representing the decentralization of the feudal system,and less work

- implement local toponyms to the the upper level rank
*mixed bag,also has its advantages,coherent and flavour
examples: barony with the count culture,kings with the emperor one.

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Re: Map Improvements

Post by Radetzky on Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:01 pm

Well I hope I understand all options well, so I won't create even bigger mind-goulash Very Happy 

Yes the first is basically my proposal. While it needs tremendous ammount of work, it is probably well worth it (and it is at least something me as person totally worthless for modding is capable of helping)

The rest, I am not sure if you are aware (it might just be my bad english, so please take it not as offence), that the toponyms are always based on top liege. So even if baron,under count, under duke and under king was let's say bohemian, the baron and all above title would still be german, because the kaiser would be german.

The conclusion:
-While it can make some nationalist hotheads bit angry, it still is the "yoke" argument.
-And second argument: Let's face it, civil wars and massive revocations happen quite often in HRE. What if county of Holland/duchy of Bohemia, etc. is given to german? Would he still use the names he could hardly even pronounce?
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Re: Map Improvements

Post by iago6666 on Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:29 pm

your english is fine,by far better than mine,if not ask someone else
my problem is with the english,not with your´s english. silent 

There was a problem with too many translations,as stated in the Peers and grandees, dukes and magnates thread,maybe Tog solved this or maybe they find some internal workaround.

you may use local place names at the county level to reduce the number of translations.
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Re: Map Improvements

Post by Radetzky on Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:12 am

Oh it's fine I understand you well. Smile

Now that you say it... yes I have read that before but forgot it, well bummer, hopefully it was fixed by tog..., because I mean, even county level names themselves can mount up to quite a number, if you for example check my experimentaly list in HRE thread (and I even forgot some)-and that was the barony level names not included. It's probably just my nitpicking, because the way paradox portrayed it, is far from perfect.
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Re: Map Improvements

Post by Radetzky on Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:12 am

Once again gotta comment this map of Herr Doctor:
http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2013/26/1372537598-setup.png

-Considering how César's map proposals are precise, there are Selonians missing, also Prussia should be dissolved into several tribes like below?


-Why is on your map south of Latgalian territory and whole Seli territroy occupied by Polotsk?

-I would like to know your proposal of northern Livonia/Estonia, as it was big mess.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/Ancient_Estonian_counties.png
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Re: Map Improvements

Post by Herr Doctor on Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:44 pm

Radetzky wrote:-Considering how César's map proposals are precise, there are Selonians missing,
Actually they are in (Selija) as a province/"county": http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2013/26/1372534230-duchies.png

Radetzky wrote:also Prussia should be dissolved into several tribes like below?
Historically yes. But then you will see them conquered by powerful neighbours within first two decades of the game which is not desirable result I suppose. May be just keep it as three West Baltic factions: the Prussians, Galindians (optional) and Yotvingians.

Radetzky wrote:Why is on your map south of Latgalian territory and whole Seli territroy occupied by Polotsk?
Selonia is not part of Polotsk, I made it part of the Semigallians (as they are quite close in origin and geographically) in order to keep them powerful enough to face powerful neighbours expansion (Poland, Lithuania, Russian principalities).
The Latgalian territories of Rezekne and Jersika are historical Polotsk tributary lands and trade outposts since the 10th century:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Jersika

Radetzky wrote:-I would like to know your proposal of northern Livonia/Estonia, as it was big mess.
The same problem as Prussia. I propose to keep it simpler and "consolidated" with four-five major Estian factions: Saaremaa, Laanemaa, Virumaa (or Revala) and Ugandi.
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Re: Map Improvements

Post by Radetzky on Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:59 pm

I see, thanks for your time and the answers! Smile Yes, I already forgot the duchy map layout, as I was mainly checking the independent states layout.

Now I only have one last proposal. Westernmost county of Masuria, Liubava?
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Re: Map Improvements

Post by Herr Doctor on Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:26 pm

Radetzky wrote:Now I only have one last proposal. Westernmost county of Masuria, Liubava?
Perhaps as barony/castle (named "Lubawa") within Sasma province? In order not to make this part of the map too fragmented.
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Re: Map Improvements

Post by Radetzky on Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:26 pm

Sure, fair enough!

EDIT:
Then the county area should adapt to that though.
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Re: Map Improvements

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